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76 lines
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76 lines
3.1 KiB
Plaintext
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:42:04 -0600
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From: Vikram S. Adve <vadve@cs.uiuc.edu>
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To: Chris Lattner <sabre@nondot.org>
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Subject: RE: Type notation debate...
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Chris,
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> Okay before you comment, please look at:
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>
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> http://www.research.att.com/~bs/devXinterview.html
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I read this argument. Even before that, I was already in agreement with you
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and him that the C declarator syntax is difficult and confusing.
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But in fact, if you read the entire answer carefully, he came to the same
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conclusion I do: that you have to go with familiar syntax over logical
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syntax because familiarity is such a strong force:
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"However, familiarity is a strong force. To compare, in English, we
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live
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more or less happily with the absurd rules for "to be" (am, are, is, been,
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was, were, ...) and all attempts to simplify are treated with contempt or
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(preferably) humor. It be a curious world and it always beed."
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> Basically, my argument for this type construction system is that it is
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> VERY simple to use and understand (although it IS different than C, it is
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> very simple and straightforward, which C is NOT). In fact, I would assert
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> that most programmers TODAY do not understand pointers to member
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> functions, and have to look up an example when they have to write them.
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Again, I don't disagree with this at all. But to some extent this
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particular problem is inherently difficult. Your syntax for the above
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example may be easier for you to read because this is the way you have been
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thinking about it. Honestly, I don't find it much easier than the C syntax.
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In either case, I would have to look up an example to write pointers to
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member functions.
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But pointers to member functions are nowhere near as common as arrays. And
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the old array syntax:
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type [ int, int, ...]
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is just much more familiar and clear to people than anything new you
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introduce, no matter how logical it is. Introducing a new syntax that may
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make function pointers easier but makes arrays much more difficult seems
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very risky to me.
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> In my opinion, it is critically important to have clear and concise type
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> specifications, because types are going to be all over the programs.
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I absolutely agree. But the question is, what is more clear and concise?
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The syntax programmers are used to out of years of experience or a new
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syntax that they have never seen that has a more logical structure. I think
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the answer is the former. Sometimes, you have to give up a better idea
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because you can't overcome sociological barriers to it. Qwerty keyboards
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and Windows are two classic examples of bad technology that are difficult to
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root out.
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P.S. Also, while I agree that most your syntax is more logical, there is
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one part that isn't:
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Arrays (without and with size):
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type ::= '[' type ']' | '[' INT ',' type ']'.
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The arrays with size lists the dimensions and the type in a single list.
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That is just too confusing:
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[10, 40, int]
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This seems to be a 3-D array where the third dimension is something strange.
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It is too confusing to have a list of 3 things, some of which are dimensions
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and one is a type. Either of the following would be better:
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array [10, 40] of int
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or
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int [10, 40]
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--Vikram
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